Comments on: Better than a list of thank yous.

by: The Doctor

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 16:49:47 +0000

[Ezekah]Quote:
Originally Posted by The Doctor
And if you do believe in the divine nature of jaysus, you’re not a Jew anymore, you’re a christian. Period.

Not true Doc. Since Judaism is defined by your birth, a different belief doesn’t affect it. A person that worships idols is an apostate Jew.

I understand the legal definition. However, on a practical basis, we need to make a distinction between those born Jewish and those born Jewish who have embraced another religion. I have had contact with too many synagogues who had people demand membership, voting privileges, and leadership opportunities based on being born of Jewish parents but who embrace “messianic judaism.” We may, in this day and age, need to change the definition of “who’s Jewish” to include a stipulation that they are not practicing another religion. It’s not overly paranoid to envision Jewish institutions being taken over by missionaries from the Jews for Jesus or messianic groups; I know that our synagogue bylaws only say “Jewish by the definitions used by the Conservative Movement” and we have had great difficulties keeping messianics from being involved in leading services or taking leadership positions including determining synagogue practices, not to mention using their position as “someone acknowledged as jewish by Temple XYZ” in their missionary literature.

by: Bluma1

Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:54:18 +0000

I believe that if you are born into a jewish household you are a jew for life…….but, after your journey and much study and reading the old testament and the new testament you also agree that Jesus was sent by God ……your beliefs founded on study does not change what happened at birth…….Shalom….Peace….Amen

by: Ezekah

Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:24:45 +0000

[David79]Are you guys saying that Jews, by and large, have never heard or considered the question, Does God exist?

No, it is a very common question. Children ask it, scientists ask it, all of Judaism asked it after the Holocaust. It is common enough that Maimonides wrote of it in the thirteen principles of Judaism. Aish just recently had yet another article about it http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Maimonides_13_Principles_-_Part_1_God_as_Creator.asp

by: Ezekah

Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:16:53 +0000

[The Doctor]And if you do believe in the divine nature of jaysus, you’re not a Jew anymore, you’re a christian. Period.

Not true Doc. Since Judaism is defined by your birth, a different belief doesn’t affect it. A person that worships idols is an apostate Jew.

by: David79

Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:44:46 +0000

Doc, I never said anything about Jesus or jaysus. I wasn’t asking what makes someone a Jew or a Christian or even what are the key questions. I get the difference, or at least some of them. I certainly no longer claim to be a Christian, but neither do I claim to be a Jew. I think, correct me if I’m wrong, that your last sentence was taking a shot at me. If I’m wrong then I apologize in advance for saying, Check your own filters, I’m not your white board.

by: The Doctor

Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:06:39 +0000

No one is saying that Jews have never considered the question of whether god exists. What everyone has been saying is that it is not the key question that it is for christians.

You cannot be a christian without believing in god and the divine nature of jaysus.

You can be a Jew without believing in god.

And if you do believe in the divine nature of jaysus, you’re not a Jew anymore, you’re a christian. Period.

by: David79

Tue, 01 Jul 2008 11:15:58 +0000

Are you guys saying that Jews, by and large, have never heard or considered the question, Does God exist?
I get the paradigm difference, but it seems to me that this question has been common currency for a long long time. The young man in the video asks that question in the middle of his Bar Mitzvah; the question cannot be that unusual among Jews.
No one seemed to misunderstand the question when Israel asked it, why is it so hard to understand when I ask?

by: The Doctor

Tue, 01 Jul 2008 07:47:30 +0000

This is something that christians have a hard time with. Christianity is a faith, and is defined by a core belief in the divine nature of Jaysus as savioir. Judaism is a very different concept. It is a covenantal community, a group of people tied together not by a common belief per se, but by an agreement to follow certain rules. Note that at the circumcision ceremony, the conversion, and [for those who choose to do this] the brit bat for baby girls the point is not baptism into the faith, but acceptance into the covenant. The covenant is an agreement to behave in a certain fashion.

For years I’ve seen christians have difficulty with this. Because they come from a perspective of a definition by faith, it’s hard to grasp a different paradigm and there’s a tendency to look at Judaism through christian filters. It’s not a religion in the sense that christianity is, and can’t be understood in those terms.

by: David79

Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:29:36 +0000

Thanks Ezekah for getting through to me. I just couldn’t understand why I wasn’t being understood, but I get it now. That was an interesting “religious” experience. So then the boy does the Bar Mitzvah, commits himself to following God’s laws despite his uncertainty about God’s existence. And the important thing is the commitment to the law, not his belief or disbelief?

by: Ezekah

Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:16:23 +0000

David79
Your thread wasn’t cut off, we just didn’t understand your question.

G-d would rather we follow His laws than state a belief. Both Abraham and Moses struggled with G-d. So we are in good company.