תודה
צליל

I see very clearly your Pathway to Denial. Look at history. All the greatest wars and the worst atrocities and awful holocausts and catastrophes started with - in your words - “a couple of crazies ” such as Hitler and his friends?
צליל

Tzlil, I agree with ALL of your above post.

מנחם בן צבי הכהן

And did you know about the “Bleach Patrols”? A group of religious tugs Tailiban like, who splash with bleach individuals they determine to be dressed imodestly?

and again to quote:
“The moment when one person’s freedom of religioun expresses itself in physical violence, it passes from the realm of religious freedom and becomes criminal assult, superseding any lofty claims of higher authority…… Israel is a democratic, secular Jewish state. While it makes provisions and very significant ones, at that, for religious and other minorities, its transcendent core principles are egalitarianism and fair applicion of the rule of law.”
צליל

Israel wrote:
“For the purposes of keeping things practical its two groups:

those people that put the word of god ahead of everything else

and those who either don’t care about the word of “god” or only put his words ahead of anything else when its convenient for them.”

Well, those who throw rockes at people driving on Shabbat as well as burning other peoples clothers belong to the latter group because they only put the word of G-d ahead of anything else when it is convenient for them.

Regarding the former group, I guess that would refer to the tzadikim who fear G-d and live by His word, even when it is NOT convenient for them.

Either way, I don’t see wear the secular (or, at least, those who do not believ in G-d) would fit in here, as one who does not believe in G-d would not care about the word of G-d in the first place.

So, now I am more confused then ever as to who is “secular” and which two groups it is that hate each other so much in Israel.

מנחם בן צבי הכהן

[celesteno]First of all a lot of the haredi community says this can’t happen until moshiach so stop worrying about it.

In that case, may the coming of moshiach be a long, long way away.

In fact, lets hope that moshiach never comes. This way people in Israel can hope to have equal rights regardless of whether or not they want to eat pork on their sundecks on a saturday afternoon while blasting some ACDC.

Sounds to me like a world with Moshiach would be a nightmare.

ישראל

[celesteno]I don’t think it classifies in the same category as burning a flag, the whole community by the way was not there burning clothes. Flag burning says I don’t like what you represent …. this says lets make a public statement to our community that we’re irrevocably ridding ourselves of this stuff we find unacceptable.

And burning “immodest” clothing is not saying “I don’t like what you represent?” I don’t know what criteria you are using. You don’t think that those who did the burning are very happy with the publicity? That they are happy that those who are not religious are reading about it? And do you really believe that they were doing the burning just as in internal housecleaning and not to make some sort of a point to non-religious people? Come on, man. Don’t be so naive! Its so obvious.

[celesteno] even if haredi people were in power they would not treat arabs any worse than the current leadership.

You don’t know “haredi people”.

ישראל

[celesteno] There are far more secular Jews supporting the Palestinians than Orthodox ones, all those far left, Israel is the new nazi germany people are not walking around in streimels.

We’re in agreement on this. The left-wing secular jews in Israel and outside of israel have this fetishistic support for the “palestinians”. They just love their music and food and therefore feel that they should be supported unconditionally. I just had a “discussion” the other day with an Israeli lefty who referred to Israel as a racist police state and that the citizens are programmed to support its every move.

Of course, he couldn’t explain why there is such a vocal left-wing movement that has the right to protest in this “police state”. And why this “police state” allows for open and fair debate in the media and in its politics. Or why this “zionist police state” allows arabs to hold seats in the knesset.

This is also a problem with north american peace organizations.

ישראל